We Who Thirst
Delve into the captivating tales of women from the Bible, exploring their lives within ancient cultures and historical contexts. These narratives reveal not only their stories but also the profound love and beauty of the God we worship.
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We Who Thirst
006 Proverbs 31: Woman of Valor
What if the traits society stereotypically labels as masculine are celebrated by God when they occur in women? Join us as we continue our enlightening mini-series on Proverbs 31, featuring our special guest, Elice Kilko. Elice shares her journey of reconciling her naturally assertive and bold nature with traditional Christian expectations. Together, we challenge the stereotype that a godly woman must be quiet and gentle by reflecting on the stories of Deborah and Abigail, who embody strength and assertiveness.
Unlock the true meaning of the Proverbs 31 woman as we explore the Hebrew term "chayil," which translates to valor and carries military connotations. This reexamination transforms our understanding of the biblical figure from a solely nurturing presence to one who is courageous and assertive. By comparing the use of "chayil" in other scriptures, particularly in the book of Ruth, we reveal its broader implications for women's roles both in biblical times and today. Our discussion highlights how traditional interpretations have minimized women's assertiveness and emphasizes the empowerment that comes from embracing the original meaning.
Discover the warlike imagery hidden within Proverbs 31 through terms like "shalal," which means spoil or plunder. This shifts the perception of the Proverbs 31 woman's labor to that of a warrior's endeavors, underlining the value and strength of her work. We also discuss how contemporary Christian teachings often limit women to stereotypically feminine roles, and why it's vital to celebrate a diverse expression of womanhood. End with a personal devotional moment, where we remind you that God delights in who you are, just as He created you. Tune in for an empowering conversation that encourages women to embrace their God-given strengths and identities.
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Today we are continuing our mini-series on Proverbs 31 to discover how God delights in women. Specifically, we will be talking about how God delights in women who are strong, assertive, bold and, dare I say, stereotypically masculine in some of their personality. Presentation With me today is my dear friend, elise Kilko. Elise is a cross-cultural teacher with a heart for ministry through loving hospitality. She was raised in Brazil and has studied in Israel. Personally, she's confronted questions about the goodness of God and deeply desires women to know Jesus' love for them. Elise, tell me what kind of personality you were taught, either implicitly or explicitly, that a godly woman needed to have.
Elice Kilko:Yeah, it's a good question. I feel like, growing up, we learned so much about what a godly woman should look like. I have three older sisters, so our house is full of girls, and I feel like within the Christian circles we were in, we were often taught Titus 2 and Proverbs 31 and the passage from, I think, peter, where it talks about a quiet spirit, a meek and quiet spirit, and I just felt like I didn't fit the bell. I didn't measure up. How could I be? How could I be quiet? Yeah, I was not quiet, so I must not be a godly woman. And it wasn't until I started studying. Thankfully, in my home we studied through women of the Bible. My dad had this book called All the Women of the Bible by Herbert Lockyer, and while I disagree a lot with things.
Elice Kilko:Now, it was definitely one of the books that made me realize that God had a lot to say about women and I would flip through and read and I realized that a lot of women in the Bible weren't necessarily quiet and that it wasn't a specific personality Like I didn't have to be quiet. I could serve Jesus with my words too. So, but it's definitely been a struggle throughout the years. Yeah definitely.
Jessica Jenkins:I know I really struggled growing up, feeling like my personality just wasn't the correct personality. I have a very type, A strong, big personality, very opinionated. I'm just going to tell you bluntly how it is. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just not going to. There's no frills. I'm just going to, straight down the middle, tell you exactly how I think it is. And that was just not. People usually weren't overtly condemning of it, but you just got the vibe that it's like you're just not the right fit.
Elice Kilko:The regular fit. Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. And when we met, our strong personalities definitely had to get along. We had to work to make that happen.
Jessica Jenkins:But I think it was also our strong personalities that we were like we are going to be friends.
Elice Kilko:Come hell or high water, we're going to make this work.
Jessica Jenkins:We will make this work and we decided, and that was that Like we had bumps, but here we are this many years later?
Elice Kilko:Yeah, a lot of years later.
Jessica Jenkins:I don't want to do that, but yeah, yeah, a lot of years later I don't want to do that, but yeah. So, yeah, that whole cultural vibe that women are supposed to have and you expect women in the Bible to have, and it's taught that they have these gentle, quiet spirits and if you see someone not being they're like, well, they were still gentle and quiet because the Bible says you have to be so and it kind of created, for me at least a little bit, this cognitive dissidence Cause you have, like Deborah and JL and Abigail Abigail.
Elice Kilko:Who made?
Jessica Jenkins:this spot and Abigail and some of them I don't want to get sidetracked too much, but there was also like Deborah, Abigail were also like the circles I was in couldn't fully decide, decide if they were positive or not quite positive female examples from the Old Testament. If it was something you should, if you should follow their example or not.
Jessica Jenkins:That's true. It's kind of like I don't know about them, but the Proverbs 31 woman you definitely should be like the Proverbs 31 woman that was drilled in Proverbs 31 woman, Like that was drilled in Proverbs 31, Titus two. That is what you need to live up to and these women are homemaking nurturers. They're super feminine and that's what you need to be, exactly like them.
Elice Kilko:Yes, which made it so hard to live up to that? Yeah, what did you find other people saying as you studied Proverbs 31?
Jessica Jenkins:I looked at a few things. Abigail Dodds in her article the Beauty of Womanhood Her Uniqueness Makes Her Essential on the Desiring God website. She said that when we, as women, forsake our feminine glory in pursuit of the uniqueness that belongs to men, we abandon our God-given glory. We become usurpers, persistently insisting that our uterus and biology are equal to nothing irrelevant. Women believe the lie that in order to be relevant in a man's world, you must become like a man when the opposite is true world. You must become like a man when the opposite is true. So I found these people talking about how women need to be uniquely feminine. It is God's design that you have to be uniquely feminine in a very feminine way. Like no confusion, no masculine traits. You have to be feminine. No confusion, no masculine traits. You have to be feminine.
Jessica Jenkins:Trillian Newbell in her chapter in Design for Joy her chapter is the Feminine Focus. She says it's not merely physical attributes that make us male and female. Femininity goes much deeper than what we see in the mirror. God created us with roles and instincts that are distinctly feminine and I remember growing up hearing vestiges of this like you have to be distinctly feminine. Of course, nobody ever fully defined what that meant. It was for me. I like things a little more concrete and it was kind of this nebulous concept and I'm trying to figure out social skills and I'm just like what do I want?
Jessica Jenkins:Like pearls, social skills and I'm just like what do I want? What is like pearls trickle down to personality, yeah, like I wear pearls, I curl my hair, uh, wear skirts, um, but when I step in a room I kind of take charge and everybody's okay with that. But that's not okay because and it's not feminine and I don't know what I'm doing here, okay, and then they would add the nurturing word on top of it. Women are feminine and nurturing. I'm like, okay, nurturing, what's that?
Jessica Jenkins:Is that like taking care of babies and toddlers? Because count me out, not interested in babies and toddlers? Is that soul care of small people? Okay, I might be able to do that for, like you know, older elementary, I'm finding, as my kids get older, I'm like, okay, soul care of small humans that can actually have a conversation, I can do that. But is that nurturing or is that just shepherding? And now we're getting funny on our terms and I felt like these words you had to be distinctly feminine, but nobody could actually define what that meant. Or when they did, I didn't fit the bill because it ended up like a soft, gentle personality.
Elice Kilko:Yeah, that's not me, which is not you?
Jessica Jenkins:Not ever. So it was just a very, very confusing. Did you run into any of that? Like you have to be overtly feminine teaching.
Elice Kilko:Yeah, I was always growing up. I was always closer to my dad than my mom and. I was never into sports or anything and I loved, you know, cooking and a lot of things that are now very like homemaking, sort of things. I care very deeply about my friends, which you could say is nurturing, but I always felt like I was too loud, or you know, I was too.
Elice Kilko:By loud I don't mean necessarily volume, but too outspoken and too direct and I had too, much eye contact with the opposite sex for some people, and I was just trying to get my point across.
Jessica Jenkins:Yep Make sure they understand what you're saying across.
Elice Kilko:Yeah, Make sure they understand what you're saying. Yes, People accuse me often of being cold, but I didn't mean to. People told me that I had spikes on my shoulder, like a cold shoulder, and there were spikes on that cold shoulder. So, yeah, I heard a lot of that and I didn't know how that fit, because I wanted to love God and I wanted to show God's love to my friends and to the people who were around me and I loved, you know, like I loved working in the nursery growing up. So you know, I loved babies, but I just, in so many ways I didn't fit the exact.
Elice Kilko:You know, I always wanted to be unique in my style, which means I didn't wear I needed pink and I didn't want to wear lace or frills, you know. So I definitely struggled through a lot of that through my teenage years. I wore t-shirts and cargo shorts and you know, just like was very tomboyish in my appearance, Um, and I didn't know how that fit with a gentle and quiet spirit or you know, how am I supposed to um, fulfill this femininity that I don't feel connected to in a lot of ways? Yeah, so I really struggled with that, especially through my teen years.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, no, I felt like I struggled with a huge amount of personality. Women talk about how they have like body image issues because they don't match up to like cosmopolitan or ideal. I always felt like I had personality image issues because they don't match up to like cosmopolitan or ideal. I always felt like I had personality image issues, like I was constantly trying to like mask or make myself smaller, and it never really worked.
Jessica Jenkins:And even when I could do that, it wasn't good for my soul do that it wasn't good for my soul, and as I'm hearing us both talk about this, knowing what I know now about neurodivergence, I wonder how much of our experience is having ADHD, having some neurodivergence, and that being a piece as well, where some of the quote stereotypical femininity pieces are much more neurotypical perhaps. I'm just throwing that out there because I know a lot of our listeners are neurodivergent as well and that makes identity really challenging as you are trying to go through it.
Elice Kilko:Yes.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah.
Elice Kilko:And even with issues of never feeling like you fit in and all of that yeah.
Jessica Jenkins:Like. You just can't figure out how to be the right kind of girl.
Elice Kilko:Mm, hmm.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, yeah. So Proverbs 31, I avoided forever because I was just sure it was going to be another you don't match up, you're not good enough kind of passage. And I did not need any more of that in my life after Bible, college and seminary and all the voices being like you have to be overtly feminine and I just wasn't.
Elice Kilko:Yes, which is so hard? Yeah, so where do you see? What do you see in Proverbs 31 that speaks to this difficulty that we both have and that we grew up with and struggled with all through our teen years?
Jessica Jenkins:Proverbs 31, as I studied it in the Hebrew, completely shocked me. I was not expecting anything that I found in this passage, especially related to like her personality, because when you look at the Proverbs 31 woman, the language they use to describe her and we miss it in the English. So if you want to see more of the Hebrew nuances of the text brought out, go to my website, wewhothirstcom. You can download a free copy of my translation of Proverbs 31 from the Hebrew. In the English you miss a lot of it, but the Hebrew is overtly masculine in its description of the Proverbs 31 woman, which completely shocked me.
Elice Kilko:Which is incredible. So you're saying that the words that they use in Hebrew are words that people in that time would associate with masculine traits?
Jessica Jenkins:Yes, exactly yeah, and so we can go through some of those verses. But for me it was completely freeing because it's like the woman everybody is supposed to be, like the Hebrew Bible describes in masculine traits. She was absolutely a woman, but she was not anything like our stereotypical perception of a super feminine nurturing woman, so she was a strong woman.
Jessica Jenkins:She was yes, and we'll talk more about that in a few minutes. One thing I want to start with is talking just about how we translate who she is, because they don't call her the Proverbs 31 woman in the text. You will have a lot of different translations. If you look at verse 10, there's a lot of different translations like excellent wife, a woman of noble character, different things like that. I mean. Books have even been written like. I had Martha Peace's the Excellent Wife on my shelf my entire teenage college years as I was aspiring to be this type of woman. But when you look at the Hebrew, verse 10 says a woman of valor who will attain far above pearls is her price. Verse 29 uses that same word for valor. It says numerous daughters do valiantly and you yourself rise above all of them so.
Elice Kilko:valiant is like another word for like courageous, almost, or like virtuous, or like a battle word.
Jessica Jenkins:It's a battle word Exactly. The Hebrew word for valor is chayil and it is typically our English translations. Typically translate that word as noble character, excellent, worthy or virtuous. And those translations are not wrong because there is a depth of meaning to the Hebrew word chayil, but they miss, as you just said, the battle component of what that word is describing.
Elice Kilko:Yeah, like we talk about soldiers who received the Medal of Valor If we could reframe and talk about a woman of valor. We have that connotation, yeah.
Jessica Jenkins:And what's really unique is outside of the book of Proverbs the only time valor or chayil is used of a woman is in Ruth. Every other time so the word chayil occurs 242 times in the Hebrew Bible in 242 verses. I should say In 238 of those verses it's talking about men. I believe four, maybe six times total does it refer to a woman. Most of them occur in the book of Proverbs, once or twice in the book of Ruth. So overarchingly, chayil is a word to describe men. It is a masculine antenna. 90-something percent of the time. It's not a word commonly used for women, ever in the Bible.
Elice Kilko:It's incredible and really cool it is.
Jessica Jenkins:And the most of the time that valor is used it's a military term. So it occurs in 242 verses but 172 of those usages, so about half it's in a military context and I've gone through and I've looked at them all it's a military context. It can also be used to denote wealth, skill to do a task, general strength or power, influence, and those other meanings are often what people use to try to translate it when it refers to a woman, because there's no military context in Proverbs 31, and the word is overtly military in its Hebrew usage. So they try to find something else to translate it. Rather than simply calling her the woman of valor, they say she's the excellent wife, a woman of wealth who can find. But I find they're not wanting to call out what the Hebrew is actually doing there.
Elice Kilko:Which is a shame for all of the people like us who never felt like they fit in.
Jessica Jenkins:It really is Like if somebody had told me as a teenager that the Proverbs 31 was a woman of valor, which is a military, strong, ferocious term, I would have been like what? Like the Bible's literally describing me. That would have done so much for my soul. How does the idea of valor as a military term in describing the Proverbs 31 woman, what does that do? How does that change the feel of the passage for you?
Elice Kilko:I think it definitely like last podcast we talked about how it's not a checklist, how Proverbs 31 isn't a checklist that gives you room to be courageous and to explore the areas of your personality that you want or need to be more assertive in and show that you can be this woman that God created you to be in your full personality. Your full personality. God made it and you can take it to God and he loves that. So it really hits different, yeah.
Jessica Jenkins:And I love how you brought out it.
Jessica Jenkins:It allows you to be the assertive that you need to be, because a lot of the cultures I was in really was down on women being assertive, and I think that's part of the reason we have had some of the like sexual abuse scandals in the SBC and various things because women are taught to not be assertive, they're taught to not trust themselves, so they don't.
Jessica Jenkins:They're not able to recognize when abuse is happening and then even when they they do, they don't want to speak up because they'd have to be assertive and assertiveness is considered divisive and it's just this whole head game that women start playing like.
Jessica Jenkins:Should I even open my mouth and we'll bring these themes back up in later podcast episodes but that empowerment of women to stand up in godly ways we're not talking about sinful expressions here but to stand up assertively and say this is right, this is wrong, I will go to battle for what is right and God smiles on that in a woman yes, that's completely a complete paradigm shift from the nebulous has to be overtly feminine and definitely nurturing womanhood I was raised in Like warrior woman versus nurturing. They were going to say nurturing every time and the warrior woman needs to go turn her plow into baby bottles. Her sword needs to become a crib. Like you hang it up and you go take care of a baby, and that's not the picture we actually see in proverbs 31 yeah, yeah, it wasn't for nothing that Jael used a tent peg to kill Sisera.
Elice Kilko:She used her women tools to do a job that needed to be done, and she was definitely a woman of valor.
Jessica Jenkins:So let's move on to verse 11, because I mean, we're just going to hit some. We're looking thematically through Proverbs 31. So we're just going to hit some high points of these verses, because this warlike theme continues throughout the entire chapter. It's not just the beginning and the end verses 10 and 29. Let's look at verse 11. Can you read that for me?
Elice Kilko:out of the ESV. Yes, it says the heart of her husband trusts in her and he will have no lack of gain, of gain, all right.
Jessica Jenkins:And then did you have another translation up as well.
Elice Kilko:I did CSB also. It says the heart of her husband trusts in her and he will not lack anything. Good Trusts in her and he will not lack anything good, anything good.
Jessica Jenkins:So the phrase he will not lack gain or he will not lack anything good. In the ESV and CSB those words are the Hebrew word shalal, that I would translate in this way and spoil her husband will not be without. So not spoil like food that spoils and goes bad, but spoil like pirate booty or bounty won in war. This word is overtly warlike. It's not just like oh, your husband will have everything good that he needs, it's like no, her husband's heart trusts in her and he will not be without the winnings from her battle. That's incredible. Basically what it's saying. You get like shivers because you have this idea of her coming home hanging up her sword and providing him with plunder. Like Like that could be another word. Trusts in her, does the heart of her husband and plunder he will not be without. This woman is conquering Now, not literally battle conquering, that's not the context, but that's the imagery they're using and again, it's incredibly masculine imagery.
Elice Kilko:So she's bringing provisions for her family through the hard work that she does in a battle-like way, even though it's not an actual war Right.
Jessica Jenkins:Yes, exactly. Yeah. This word's very specific and it plays off the masculine warlike imagery from Chayil in verse 10, valor in verse 10. So the two verses are playing together and the author of Proverbs 31 does not view this woman's tasks as easy, or even women's work, as the colloquialism goes. Instead, the author compares the results of the woman of valor's labor to bounty brought back by men from battle. He values her labor that highly which, in a lot of Christian circles I hear them talking about how much they value women's labor. Being a mom is the most important job in the world. And they say all this and then the men don't want any part of it.
Elice Kilko:Yeah.
Jessica Jenkins:Not all men. I'll be the first to say that because, like my father and my husband, they are there, they're getting their hands dirty, they're changing the diapers, they're taking care of the kids. My husband and my dad in many ways are far more nurturing than I am. If my kids are sick, my husband's like, oh, come here, I'll cuddle you. I'm like I will take your temperature, I will run to the store and I will get you medicine. I can cuddle you for five minutes and then mommy has to move, because sitting still for more than five minutes to cuddle you is literal torture. My husband's like I got two hours, we'll just lay on the couch and I'll provide you warmth and comfort, like I'm glad they have those nurturing tendencies because I will bring back bounty from the grocery store in the form of medicine and I will lay it at your feet.
Jessica Jenkins:Yes, and that's important too, so I appreciate men who step in to do those things, but in our culture in the church, men talk about being a mom is the highest calling, but I don't want to do any of those things. But here, in Proverbs 31, her work is elevated to the same reverence as the warrior that their culture depended on for safety.
Elice Kilko:Are there other words like that in this passage?
Jessica Jenkins:The next one I think is probably one of my favorite. Can you read verse 15 in the ESV?
Elice Kilko:She rises while it is yet night and provides food for her household and portions for her maiden for her household and portions for her maiden.
Jessica Jenkins:So that word food for her household is not one of the typical Hebrew words for food. This is the word prey. I can't remember which translation it was, but they translated it meat, which would be more accurate than just general food. But it's the idea of prey like a prey animal. It's the imagery here. In verses 10 and 11, we had the imagery of a warrior going to battle, bringing back plunder for her family. This is a praise song for a warrior who brings back plunder, brings back plunder. In verse 15, the imagery shifts. Now the imagery is of a lioness standing over her kill. She's just killed a gazelle and she's providing food off of the gazelle to her cubs. So it's still that warlike imagery. It's just a slightly different picture and I love that. The proverb keeps coming back to that. It's not just food. Woman, get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich. I'm going to go hunt a deer. No, she is the one out there hunting the deer.
Elice Kilko:She is the one bringing the prey back in which should be encouraging to all of the women in your space who hunt come fall. Yes, which is exciting.
Jessica Jenkins:They could all say I'm just being a Proverbs 31 woman. I'm doing exactly what the Bible says. They now have a verse for that, their theme verse for the hunt. One commentator said the use of prey rather than bread or food gives verse 15 the overtones of aggression and pugnacity.
Elice Kilko:Pugnacity is such a great word.
Jessica Jenkins:It is, and especially when you are raised in a culture where women should not be aggressive or pugnacious. They need to be quiet and subdued, mild-mannered demure. Yes, to have the passage be like no for a woman to be appropriately aggressive and even I'm showing my own culture, because for a man to be aggressive, you don't have to hedge that- yeah.
Jessica Jenkins:But as a woman I feel like I have to hedge saying a woman, a man, to be aggressive. You don't have to hedge that. But as a woman I feel like I have to hedge saying a woman's going to be she's appropriately aggressive. But I wouldn't ever say a man has to be appropriately aggressive. So I'm finding myself even hedging that kind of statement. But to have that, that we can be what we are called to be situationally she's not always bringing home prey, it's as the need requires, but we can step up in those ways is so freeing for my soul.
Elice Kilko:So here then we see that she's a force to be reckoned with. She's this woman of valor, is truly not passive or limiting herself. She's being her full potential. She's meeting her full potential. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. Are there other verses?
Jessica Jenkins:Oh you know there are. So verse 17,. I'm just going to read my translation of it. Verse 17 says she girds her loins with strength and makes her arms mighty. What on earth does it mean to gird one's loins? That is not the way we ever talk.
Elice Kilko:Well, I know from growing up that it was like when they would tie their um, like their clothes up so that they could do labor or battle, so that they could have free, freedom of movement yeah, one way I've seen it done is like you stand and you bring, because even the men wore long robes.
Jessica Jenkins:You'd bring the robe up between your legs and tuck it in the belt in front, or you could like kind of tie it on the sides. Yes, but again, this is another phrase that is overtly masculine in its description. Women are not described anywhere in the Old Testament as girding their loins. Nowhere, nowhere. Women do not gird their loins in the Old Testament. Only men gird their loins. And here, the Proverbs 31, woman is doing a stereotypically male endeavor again. So as I think about those initial quotes I read from complementarian thinkers like Abigail Dodds and Trillia Newbell, where they're like, women have to be overtly feminine. They can't be masculine in any way. Then you read the Hebrew of Proverbs 31 and you go wait a minute.
Elice Kilko:There's a total disconnect in what the Hebrew is saying and how we, how complementarians, often see it in this day and age.
Jessica Jenkins:Yes, and even complementarian articles on Proverbs 31,. They'll be like women should be strong in that they should be confident in God's goodness and they should work hard in their homes. And that's about as far as they take it. They don't get into wait a minute, because on one side you have to be overtly feminine, like they are stuck to that idea. Yeah, but Proverbs 31 is not at all. We see in Proverbs 31, this perception of gender roles that the Proverbs 31 is not staying within. We see her working vigorously in areas of the masculine domain in her culture without losing her femininity or her God-honoring status as a woman. God likes what this woman is doing, or we wouldn't have the inspired scripture in our Bible. Yeah, when I started looking at Proverbs 31 as things as a cultural representation of characteristics that God likes in women, it completely changed my perspective.
Elice Kilko:I can totally see that. I can see how it would change that, for sure.
Jessica Jenkins:Because she doesn't go about her tasks diminutively quietly. She walks in with great confidence and exercises. If you're interested in the role of women in the Old Testament family and what that looked like, I have a talk on patricentrism and heterarchy. Up on my YouTube channel you can find that. Search for we who Thirst podcasts and you'll be able to find that lecture there and I'll walk through all of the different ways that women had authority and power in their community and families in the Old Testament. Just a side note, if you're interested in that topic, if something was like oh, I want to know more about that. I have a lecture out there for you and it has pictures it's so good.
Jessica Jenkins:Yes, it does have pictures, which pictures are always great. That's why it's on YouTube, because, yeah, it's really great that way.
Elice Kilko:So what ways have you found Christian culture appreciates women's strength and in what ways did you see that they reject? We talked a little bit about that, but what ways do you see that are, yeah, in this day and age, we reject that. And what ways do you see that we get that from what the Bible is saying?
Jessica Jenkins:The complementarians I've read and listened to and just kind of the the complimentary culture I swam in. I'm definitely not going to blame my parents because I think they parented me pretty well, like they did a good job with the daughter God gave them. So none of this is blame like on my parents, but we were still in this cultural river that impacted me deeply, even though it didn't come from my parents specifically. They provided specific books, like Martha Peace's the Excellent Wife, but it was really the cultural river. The college I went to, the seminary I went to. So the complementarians I've read and listened to. They say they want women to be strong. They really do. If you go search any of their websites for Proverbs 31, they're going to say women should be strong, they need to be disciplined, they need to be enduring, like what comes to your mind. How do they describe a woman's strength?
Elice Kilko:strength, Um, yeah, I think it's definitely in like stereotypical feminine ways.
Elice Kilko:So like, oh, you should be strong in that you're, you know working in the garden, that you have a garden or that you you know um hoist two babies on your hips, whatever, but um, but there isn't a whole lot of space, um often or there wasn't as I was growing up for for women who have, you know, really strong thighs because they love to play soccer, or you know um, just different, different things like that. You know where their strength could be celebrated in the strength that God gave them, for you know where their strength could be celebrated in the strength that God gave them, for you know a woman that likes to do CrossFit or something like that which is not me, but but just that wasn't celebrated.
Elice Kilko:You know, like here I was feeling outcast for my personality, but I felt very comfortable with other girls who were struggling because they were super tomboys that loved playing soccer or, you know, were super sporty and they had really athletic bodies, girls that were swimmers and had, you know, these awesome shoulders, you know, just because that's what their sport needed. So I feel like it was it devalued the way that our culture talked about femininity, devalued the strength that God gave women in like physical or personality ways, because they expected, you know, women to be this one monolith of a gentle and quiet spirit, which to them meant a soft voice and just like a very, you know, vanilla sort of personality, which I don't even like to say because I love vanilla and vanilla from different places in the world, like there's so much variance, but you know, as people understand, yeah it.
Jessica Jenkins:And there was even, not just like the subtle cultural undertones, but even like john piper in um one of his I think it's the um recovering biblical manhood and womanhood, even talks about how women shouldn't necessarily be in the gym lifting weights and trying to be manly by having muscles. It's like she makes strong her arms.
Elice Kilko:How does she do that? I mean, she's probably grinding wheats and things like that. That's a workout, it is yeah, but yeah, that's a bunch of baloney, as my dad would say.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah. But they wanted women to be strong, but it had to be in an overtly feminine way, so not muscles, not personality. Pushing out a baby is a nice, overtly feminine strength, strong, strong. But it couldn't be masculine at all. But Proverbs 31 teaches us that the woman of valor's splendor, her glory, is intrinsically tied to God and he adores her strength. Proverbs 31 is God saying I love a strong, even a woman who transgresses some of these gender boundaries a little bit, where she is a woman after his own heart, but she's a little masculine and God's like I like that. I made her like that, that's beautiful.
Elice Kilko:It allows for such a full spectrum of what being a woman looks like. You can be the lace and flower feminine, quiet woman and honor the Lord and you can be the warrior princess who goes after what she believes God wants her to do and is also a Proverbs 31 woman, a woman of valor.
Jessica Jenkins:God likes women of all types. I feel like that is part of the fullness that Proverbs 31 helps us to see, because you have to read 1 Peter 3, the gentle, quiet spirit alongside the ferocious warrior who provides prey and plunder for her family. They're not mutually exclusive and God delights in both, in both. And I really want to speak especially for a moment to those listening who might like. We've talked a lot about the woman with the strong personalities and the warrior-esque-ness, but I want to talk briefly to the women who are like. But I am the nurturing, quiet, demure woman and I just want to say to that listener that's beautiful.
Jessica Jenkins:I don't want anyone to walk away from this thinking that that kind of woman is worse or not as good, or that God doesn't delight in that, because Proverbs 31 uses the masculine language. The fact that it uses the masculine warlike imagery in Proverbs 31 is not saying a quiet, gentle, demure, more soft-spoken, careful-thinking, not assertive woman is a wrong way to be a woman. That's not at all, because there's other passages that bring out the beauty of that and God delights in that as well. I want us all to be able to think about a well-rounded womanhood where women are allowed to be whole people. We're not caricatures of an ideal, we are whole people and that's going to look different for every woman and that's good. We are all being transformed in our character to exemplify the fruit of the Spirit and a 1 Corinthians 13 love.
Elice Kilko:But we do that in a myriad of beautiful personality types, body types, expressions that God delights in that gives us so much encouragement as we go forward to be, encouragement as we go forward to be whoever God made us to be, regardless of our personality. We can be sure that, if we're seeking to please the Lord and follow his example, that we're going to be pleasing to him, which is so different than the vibe we usually get when we study Proverbs 31.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, I avoided Proverbs 31.
Jessica Jenkins:And then I felt like, when I noticed all these things, it was literally a love letter from God and I'm like not the one to say it's a love letter for the Bible scriptures or love letter written to you, because the Bible's not written to us.
Jessica Jenkins:But in that devotional moment I just I felt like the Lord was saying for the first time Jessica, it's okay, exactly who I made you to be is okay. Not only is it okay, I think it's awesome and that has been incredibly transformative in my mind and heart and I really hope for someone listening out there who needs that same message that this will bring them hope that God didn't mess up and make you a girl when he should have made you a boy, because you have the wrong personality to be the quote Christian girl. God made you exactly the way he wanted you, with a mixture of traits, and that is okay to have as a woman, and God delights in that. Well, thank you all so much for listening. Next episode we are going to talk about the Proverbs 31 woman and her husband and lay out that relationship a little bit, emphasizing trust and how God wants women to be trusted. I can't wait to talk to you about that. We will see you next time.
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