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We Who Thirst
Delve into the captivating tales of women from the Bible, exploring their lives within ancient cultures and historical contexts. These narratives reveal not only their stories but also the profound love and beauty of the God we worship.
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We Who Thirst
008 Interview Sex Ed Reclaimed: Faith-Based Approaches to Sexuality Education
Unlock the secrets to effective and faith-based sex education with Kristen Miele from Sex Ed Reclaimed. A veteran sexual health educator with 15 years of experience, Kristen takes us through her extraordinary journey from a Christian university to a Big Ten university, revealing her passion for public health and human sexuality. Learn how she's on a mission to bridge the gap in Christian families' sex education, offering an age-appropriate curriculum for children aged 3 to 18 that encourages open, ongoing conversations about body safety and sexuality, all while staying true to her faith.
Explore the fascinating historical role of older women in sex education within ancient cultures and early church communities. We delve into the wisdom of biblical teachings, such as Titus 2, and how intimate settings like house churches and menstrual tents created spaces for deep, intergenerational knowledge sharing. Kristen draws powerful modern parallels, emphasizing the importance of women's fellowship and the comfort that women often find in sharing their experiences with each other. This chapter is a heartfelt reminder of the enduring value of mentorship and collective wisdom.
Join us as we confront the pressing challenges of sexual brokenness within missionary communities and the wider Christian context. Through personal stories and candid discussions, we uncover the damaging effects of purity culture and the harmful societal sexualization of men. Kristen highlights the necessity of starting sex education early, teaching emotional intelligence, and fostering healthy, holistic dialogues about sexuality and relationships. This insightful episode also offers practical advice for parents on how to navigate these essential conversations with their children, ensuring they grow up informed and comfortable in their own skin.
Use the code CHRISTIANPARENTING as a 15% off Kristen's site: www.sexedreclaimed.com
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Welcome back to the we who Thirst podcast. With me today is Kristen from Sex Ed Reclaimed. I cannot wait to hear what she is going to tell us. Kristen has been a sexual health educator for 15 years. She is the owner and founder of Sex Ed Reclaimed, which provides Christian families with a full video library which I love of age-appropriate sex health education for children ages 13 to 18. So pretty much your kid's entire life at home with you. Her curriculum's available on her website and she even has free samples available. I'll mention it now as well as later. She also has a 15% off coupon for those who are listening and you can use the CH code for that 15% off on her website. I'll also have that in the show notes comments so you can see that as well. Good morning, kristen. It is so great to have you here.
Kristen Miele:Good morning. Thank you, jessica, for having me.
Jessica Jenkins:I appreciate it, so tell me how did you get interested in sexual education? What kind of background do you have? I am just so curious in the origin story of everything that you're doing.
Kristen Miele:Sure, yeah. My origin story is basically rooted in like God's call on my life. I never was necessarily driven towards or passionate about sex ed. As a young person. I didn't have much sex ed myself. Rather, I got a lot of silence and I think I did feel some shame around learning about sex, like many of us did, because it wasn't talked about very frequently and so you knew it was like this forbidden subject, even though you had questions and curiosities and desires and leanings. None of those things were truly discussed or seemed to be cared for, and so this was definitely not where we thought my life was heading.
Kristen Miele:But I ended up um, essentially I transferred to a big 10 university from a Christian university. I felt a little bit bad about that because I was like leaving this seemingly like real Christian community to go to the secular place. But it was really in the secular place, so to speak, that I grew in my faith a lot and in that place I started studying public health and I saw a lot of gospel correlation with community health and caring for people, meeting them where they're at, helping them to live healthier lives based on their choices and availability of resources and care and connection to like service as the gospel ordains it and commands it really. And so I loved public health.
Kristen Miele:But then I decided to stay at that university for my graduate degree and during that time was when I was assigned to teach human sexuality. Okay, and I was really scared about that because, like I said, I had never talked about the subject but there was really no option and human sexuality was a really popular class. I'm sure some of your listeners who had that offered in college collegiate settings know like it's just a popular class because people do want to talk about it, they do want to learn, it is interesting and sexy inherently because people do want to talk about it.
Kristen Miele:They do want to learn. It is interesting and sexy. Inherently, kids want to learn about that. But I was amazed at how little college students knew I had just been a college student and I felt like I was able to really weave in truth, speaking to people's conscience about sex and how valuable it is and how important it is and how intimate it is and how I mean truly naked, both metaphorically and literally it is, and I started to build a lot of confidence in talking about it, but that was only through prayer and dependence on the Lord and seeing that it was his and not mine like, and not Satan's either.
Kristen Miele:It wasn't this evil subject, it was an evil topic. It wasn't evil to teach. It was actually a really good, inherently beautiful topic. But the world has really taken it away from that beauty because Satan wants to use it for evil. And so I became started becoming passionate about it then, but had no idea that it was going to be the course of my life and I've been continuing like in this field because God has drawn me back to it again and again and again. Uh, and I think it's because there's a gap for Christians in this space. You don't know how to talk about sex with their kids and they don't know how to confront all the hard topics of our culture. But I do. I've done that many, many times, and so filming it and providing it for families, for kids, like I think you said, three to 18. I mean that whole lifespan of childhood is really important to me. It's a continual conversation, you know. It's not just to talk any longer.
Jessica Jenkins:So for the ages three to 18, how many different programs do you have available? Because obviously the way you're going to explain sex ed to a 16 year old is completely different than what you would do with a three year old. So I'm assuming you have different programs, not just like one big one.
Kristen Miele:Yes, so I have a program for three to six year olds which is called the Young Learner.
Jessica Jenkins:Learner.
Kristen Miele:Curriculum year olds, which is called the young learner curriculum, and it's taught at their level. It's very like you know, I kind of changed my voice to make it more childish and engaging. For that, those kids and their workbook is very different. It's more um, simple and color-based and um, it's really about parents watching it with their kids at that point, because they're so little videos are shorter, since their attention spans are shorter, and we go over simple things like body language, understanding about somebody's body language.
Kristen Miele:So if they're, saying no with their body, then we're not going to give them a hug or um, how to verbally say no If you don't want somebody to kiss you, touch you, um, uh well, how, what to what? To call parts of your body, like appropriate names, the real names, and how. There's no embarrassment in that these are the real names for your body, but some of your little friends might not know these names, so we can just use them at home and use them with the doctor, and it's mainly focused on safety for that age group, because that's I mean that's an abuse age group, because that's I mean that's an abuse, Absolutely Like that age can be taken advantage of easily. Abuse happens in that age. So them understanding what it is and calling it what it is, without it being like this super depressing, like oh gosh, we're having this intense talk, so it's really engaging, really fun. And then after that is seven to 10 year olds, which are elementary learners.
Kristen Miele:And this. It's broken up this way based on my experience, because I've spent 15 years in classrooms and so to me it made the most sense. That's that's more information, that gets more difficult topics, but it still keeps it pretty simple and straightforward. And then, after that, 11 to 13 year olds my preteen curriculum has a ton of content in it. I mean almost a hundred videos of lessons, full workbook, like really is getting at everything, but still noting that many of the kids in that age group might not have experienced or had conversations around this topic.
Kristen Miele:Have experienced, you know, with the topic, Right, so um, but it's really a lot about puberty as well. Yeah, and then 14 to 18 year old is my last curriculum and that's kind of the same. It's just expansive. I really expound upon all the topics and get at it with kids who are wondering things and are about to go off into the world and like need to have a worldview developed at that point on some level right and be able to answer culture, and I want kids to feel armed and ready to do that, not just with the right answers but with, like, an ability to engage and think about these topics critically.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm assuming and that was you said four different programs and I'm assuming each of them kind of stand alone. So if somebody is just hearing about this and they have a 15-year-old, they don't have to worry that they didn't do the three to six-year-old program. They can just pick up whatever age their kids are at.
Kristen Miele:Yes, completely, and I do get asked that a good amount and I need to probably make it even clearer on the website. But on my website you can see the breakdown and the content in each curriculum and you can actually hover over the content to see like what I talk about more. So not only does it list out the content but like expands on that a little bit with pop up text bubbles. But yeah, you don't need to. If you're just starting at eight, you don't need to review the three to six because that is written for like toddlers so it's not really going to apply to your eight-year-old Love it.
Jessica Jenkins:And I love that your website goes in more depth, because different kids have different abilities, different maturity levels. Maybe your 10-year-old actually needs the 11 to 13 rather than, or your 12-year-old is developmentally behind. They really need the younger. So that really allows parents to see okay, what is my child needing at this stage?
Kristen Miele:Completely. Yeah, I'm glad you bring that up, because sometimes I have somebody, let's say they have a daughter who's nine and a son who's 11, and their son is neurodivergent and so they're like, well, I'm just going to actually have my kids watch it together the seven to 10 year old curriculum because he's maybe not quite there, he hasn't really started going through puberty yet. I think he'll be okay watching it with his sister. He gets along with his sister well enough, et cetera. So it can totally be flexible for your family and your unique circumstances.
Jessica Jenkins:I love that. I absolutely love that. So one of the things we do on this podcast is talk about women of the Bible. So I always try to ask those I have as guests who your favorite woman of the things we do on this podcast is talk about women of the Bible. So I always try to ask those I have as guests who your favorite woman of the Bible is.
Kristen Miele:I love that question. I think that's great. There's so many women mentioned in the Bible and they're so powerful and strong in their own rights, and I think I was thinking about this question like different seasons of my life. I feel like I would choose different women because they speak to that season. But as of now I and there's not a ton about her in the Bible, but Priscilla, which will sound familiar- to most people.
Kristen Miele:She was just such a powerful church leader and I love that she led the church but also really worked alongside not only her husband but the congregation.
Kristen Miele:And I found in Acts 18, 26, it says it's talking about somebody else and it says he began to speak boldly in the synagogue when Priscilla heard him, she and her husband invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
Kristen Miele:So it's almost like they heard the speaker and they were like, okay, that's great, but we feel like we can disciple him a little bit more, speak into his life a little bit more, help maybe refine or continue sanctification process. And they like invited him over and just hung with him and I can only imagine the conversations that they had. But I just think that that's such a cool, it's, it's it's almost you barely like notice the verse, but it's almost like they were just like I'm gonna take him under our wing too and like pour into him theologically, spiritually, whatever. Yes, and I appreciate that. So she's maybe a minor, very minor character, but I like that she felt called to lead and was going to do so by ministering to I mean, I think it says like in Acts 2, like the poor and the young and other leaders and really figure out how Jesus fit into the greater story and how they could disciple others. So I like that.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, she's absolutely fantastic.
Jessica Jenkins:I love that.
Jessica Jenkins:And just listening to you talk thinking about our topic at hand, sex education, your favorite woman of the Bible and the early church with the female leaders.
Jessica Jenkins:Titus 2 talks about older women teaching younger women, thinking about how potentially in these cultures it's the older women's job to give younger women sex education. So that could be part of what these women are doing is helping the congregation, but especially the younger women, because they probably would have split up those any sex conversations by gender, because they probably would have split up those any sex conversations by gender how the older women would be hands-on helping prepare younger women for their marriages and their lives and all of that sort of thing. And so that's just a really neat thing to think about how that could be part of the ancient culture. And especially since you're dealing with house churches, you're not dealing with our idea of church where everybody's kind of far away from each other, not related, you know. You're dealing with small groups of people where there's this deep family relationship where, on multiple levels, it would be appropriate for the older women to be giving sex education to the younger woman in that both household and church spiritual setting.
Kristen Miele:I love that.
Kristen Miele:That's a really good point it makes me think of the tents in like the Old Testament, where they would go during their time of uncleanliness, right, and I just wonder what kind of fellowship happens there for women like and even around sexual health, education and puberty in their bodies. Did they talk about periods and what they knew about periods and you know how pregnancy happened or what pregnancy and childbirth were like? Like, did they have a really deep connection during that time? And obviously we don't need tents anymore, we don't do that anymore but like it could have been a really beautiful time of women connecting with other women and, like you're saying, older women really guiding and leading too. I don't know, but that's kind of my assumption.
Kristen Miele:Yeah guiding and leading to I don't know, but that's kind of my assumption.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, and I find even today and I'll be curious to see if this is your experience as well just in the realm of sexuality, I find that women talk about it a lot more than men do. We hear about men and like locker room talk and those sorts of things. I was telling my husband the other day I was like men in unhealthy relationships or who have an unhealthy view of sexuality talk about it a lot in bad ways. Men with healthy views of sexuality generally don't talk about it at all. Women in healthier relationships often feel safe enough to talk about it. It's the ones who are in unhealthy relationships who don't. He was like yeah, I think that's right, because I know more about my friend's sex lives than my husband knows about his. I know things about some of his friend's sex lives because I'm friends with their wives that he's clueless on. Not that we're just sharing random details, but women, you know birth control, this, that the other thing, how our bodies work. We're we're sharing those sorts of details. Do you find similar experiences as well?
Kristen Miele:Oh, completely. I mean, that's such a good point. And again, like you're saying, I don't think it's just to air dirty laundry and like talk about super intimate stuff that you wouldn't, your husband wouldn't want other people to know, right? It's more like we just share about our lives more fully and we fellowship differently.
Kristen Miele:And you know my, my husband and I went on the mission field abroad for years and one of the things we noticed was that within the missionary community there we never talked about this topic.
Kristen Miele:Oh, wow, yeah, and the reason that that mattered is because we ended up leaving the field due to some sexual brokenness on the field and lack of really caring about that, even from higher up agency levels, um, who are supporting us.
Kristen Miele:And so when we came back, my husband was really intentional about in our community group or like some people call it, life group or whatever, bible study, bible study um, he would hang out with the men that we would have male and like men and guy or girl nights and we'd split up and he would like talk about sexual brokenness and accountability and like who is participating in this and why and how can we help you, um, to get away from that? And he's just a lot better at talking about sex and sexuality because he he saw so much pain and realize it's because men typically don't share that kind of stuff. Yeah, and that hurts the body and actually I think that's what Satan wants. I think Satan wants men to be real quiet on it, unless it's a big joke or, like you said, a locker room talk situation which is sexual immaturity?
Kristen Miele:Yes, but it's not totally their fault. It's because they've never really been discipled in that and led in that and shown how can I talk about this and still be honoring to God, but also be honest and authentic. And maybe that's not with like 20 guys, right, but with a fair friends, yeah so, and that can only help your marriages and help your families Absolutely.
Jessica Jenkins:And I feel like some of what you're describing is some of the toxicity you're seeing and how from purity culture and how that affects men. Almost this shutdown of all desire you can't even notice a beautiful one like noticing is equated with lust in purity culture, and so men are just in some ways taught in religious circles to be shut down about it.
Kristen Miele:You're spot on. I was just talking with somebody yesterday who wrote a really great book, and I have this on my resource page on my website. Okay, I can send you a link as well, but it's written towards men and it's called the Sex Talk we Never Got yes.
Jessica Jenkins:Written by a male counselor.
Kristen Miele:Yes, and he was saying that men have been sexualized, which, when I think of that word, like probably most people when they hear that word, I think of women and how women are obviously sexualized. Right, like noticing beauty is, like you said, uh, conflated with like, oh, that's lust, and it's very confused with, um, yeah, just wanting them, or or essentially lusting after them, just like you said.
Kristen Miele:But masculine sexualization is more about making men seem like this is all they want. This is all they need. This is the only way to talk about it is to talk about it in a degrading way and there's nothing more to it. You know, sex is kind of a game. What basis can you get to? Did you score that kind of language? And that's a sexualization of masculinity.
Kristen Miele:And I thought that was a really interesting point, because men have been sexualized and essentially conditioned, socially conditioned, to act and be that way, when that is certainly not what we're called to at all. And so there's much more to sex and we know that there's much more to sex and I'm big on that in my curriculum, by starting young, with boys and girls on, like, naming emotions clear, about what your emotions are, and as they get a little bit older, I clearly say, like, if you know what you're dealing with, if you know your emotion and why you're having it, you're going to be less driven towards addictive behaviors like porn, because you're not going to be going to porn for your assertion of independence or power or to deal with your anxiety or depression or your sadness or as a reward. You're going to respond to your emotions in a healthy way because you have a higher emotional intelligence, and that's something that wasn't super encouraged with men or women when they were young, but particularly with little boys. Yeah, it was a missed. Yeah, it was gap.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, I feel like a lot of Christian men just bouncing off of what you say. Their sex ed was from the secular culture and so when they're trying to live godly lives, it's mixed with the secular culture. Sexualization of men that you just described, and especially godly men, they have that push-pull like sex is important to me and they're trying to untangle threads. They're not always sure how to do that, so they are quiet about it, which can then, unfortunately, I would imagine, lead to perpetuating the cycle, because they then don't know how to talk about it with their own children and how to bring it to their children and to model healthy male views around sex for their families um for their families.
Kristen Miele:Yeah, I completely agree. Um, totally spot on. And that's that's one of the biggest hindrances towards discipling your kids sexually essentially is because there's no model for it. You don't know how to do that. At most Maybe you got a book or you got to talk, or I mean honestly when I ask people at conferences and parents um, at conferences or in group settings, you know where I'm teaching or something. And I mean honestly when I ask people at conferences and parents at conferences or in group settings where I'm teaching or something.
Kristen Miele:And I say, who in here feels like they had great sex ed and they really learned well, it's typically people who grew up in secular families. There was no faith background, and so their mom or dad or both were really honest about sex with them. They didn't care, there was no shame there. They were maybe overly honest about their own behaviors, but that. Or like they grew up with a doctor in the family or a nurse who was very clear, so at least they got good anatomy lessons and they learned all the appropriate names and there wasn't shame around the body.
Kristen Miele:Um, but it's like that. Those are like the only two options. I never hear people say, oh my gosh. I had such great success from my family, my parents, they were so great, they're wonderful about it and I grew up in a Christian family. Like that is a rarity and I think that's a work of spiritual warfare and Satan. But I also think it's because it perpetuates that cycle Like you're talking about. They just don't know how to do it in the next generation, so they don't choose to be disengaged with that, not to ask their kids not to talk about it If they do. It's really awkward.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, yeah, because I'm trying to think generations here. I know purity culture for our generation was a big thing. It kind of rose during my late high school. Early college was like the heyday of purity culture and I feel like some of that was my parents' generation push back on like the sexual revolution. They want to bring it in bounds, but they ended up creating a pendulum to the other side of toxicity on the other side. And I feel like now we're trying to be like how do we train our kids, teach them about sex in age-appropriate ways alongside and I love this with your curriculum. I'm so excited. I love that you are weaving together sex education, the information they need, with some emotional intelligence components, with things that help prevent them from being abused Like. I love that you're weaving all of those things together because those are what our generation needed.
Kristen Miele:I mean it is. It's a response to that. I'm glad you picked up on that and saw that, because it's a very full, holistic conversation around sex and that's, I think, what the Lord wants. That's how he designed it. He designed it as all parts that go together. All of it is meant to glorify and reflect his goodness and sex, doesn't the sex talk? Well, first of all, I don't believe in the talk. Right, it should be a lot of conversation, like I said earlier, but the sex talk is not about the mechanics of actually having sex. It is so much bigger than that and just to reduce it to like, quote unquote, the plumbing is silly.
Kristen Miele:It's so unnecessary because it's actually a much more beautiful, full conversation about the integration of like self and how we operate in the world and how we view the opposite sex and dating and healthy marriage, and how we call out abuse and stand up for social justice and that, and it really is a full conversation around the topic and that's why there's so much. I don't want parents to feel overwhelmed Like, oh my gosh, she has 100 lessons in here. That's so much, right. It's just because there's a lot that you can discuss and talk about and really fully put into conversations, and I want that to be available to parents, who just need some language for it language for it.
Jessica Jenkins:Absolutely. And in I'm going to bounce off of what you just said with the hundred lessons and parents feeling overwhelmed, cause I know lots of busy parents, that's can happen very easily. Um, running kids back to sports practices when I'm going to have time to view a hundred lessons, are those? And the a hundred lessons was the 11 to 13 program, kind of middle school. Yeah, 11 and up, 11 and up. Okay, so you have a hundred lessons there. Are they like sequential, like you need to watch them one, two, three, four, or are they like okay, this is the topic we really need to hit today, because X happened at school, so we're going to hit lesson 23. How does that work within the program?
Kristen Miele:Yeah, you're right on again it's. You can do either, like I have a calendar with each curriculum that tells you how the curriculum can be viewed, according to how I planned it, um, but you don't have to do that. So, let's say, your 10 year old goes to school, goes to school today, and one, or I don't know, goes to a church group or whatever sports camp and somebody there is like I'm no longer using those pronouns and they're 10, and you're like man, we already have to have this conversation. Like I don't know what to do about that. I don't know how to respond to that.
Kristen Miele:Um, you can go watch the pronoun video, like you know. You don't have to wait until it's scheduled. You can go watch it, you can review it and you get lifetime access to curriculum, so you can watch it as much as you want. It can use it for your younger kids as they grow up into that age. But it is very flexible for the family to watch what applies, because things do happen, events do occur. They might hear about something maybe the news and all of this conversation about politics and we're talking about abortion in the news and it's like, well, let's actually watch her video on that and see what she says and engage on this topic and think about how we can respond to this topic. So you don't have to go in order, but I do lay out an order there if you want to kind of have a proper schedule especially for like homeschooling parents or something so that they can schedule it.
Jessica Jenkins:And that's really that's. I love that. It's a both and like you can do either or both. And you mentioned for the youngest program that it's something you expect kind of parents to watch with the kids. The older programs obviously parents watching with the kids is always going to be a benefit. It can provide conversations, but is it necessary?
Kristen Miele:good question. No, it's not like by the time that they can push, play and pause on their own. Uh, it's not they, they, they don't have to watch it. I think it's unique to the family. I think some kids, probably already by seven, eight, nine, don't feel as comfortable watching it with their parent.
Kristen Miele:And so maybe their parent checks in after, or they review their workbook or they um say, hey, I've already watched those videos. And I know one of the questions she asked was this like, what did you say to that? So maybe they engage on in that capacity? But other parents are like, yeah, I can totally watch my nine-year-old like she would want me to. So it really depends. But pretty much, after they're able to and you trust them to actually engage with it, they can watch it on their own. It's up to the parents.
Jessica Jenkins:What I'm trying to figure out how to formulate this question. Um, I'm going to give you the background, then I'll figure out how to formulate the question. Um, I try at the beginning of the school year to just have kind of a week where I spend some extra focus, like we try to weave sex ed conversations into life all the time anyway. But right before school starts my kids go to public school. I try to have a little bit extra education just to make sure that they are remembering details, because who knows what they're going to hear at school and I want to make sure we've talked about it first.
Jessica Jenkins:But as we were doing that this year, I noticed one of my kids. I was reading a book about it and the child got up and just started, like they're still listening, but they were uncomfortable and wandering the room and, you know, just showing various signs and even was like that kind of makes me uncomfortable and I'm like, okay, well, you need the basic information. But thank you for telling me how you feel. What sort of signs and signals would you have parents looking out for for the comfort levels of their kids and how would you recommend parents respond to that, since this can be a very shame filled kind of for all parties tricky topic to talk about.
Kristen Miele:Yeah that's a great question. I love your response to your child that you said like you do need this information, but I recognize your discomfort. I think acknowledging like normalizing that, acknowledging the discomfort and saying yeah, that's that's how I felt or that's how many kids feel, or this topic can be uncomfortable. Could you tell me a little bit more about why you feel uncomfortable or did anything happen at school that made you uncomfortable? Um, and kind of ask them a few questions to see if they will respond to that or open up about that? But I think it's okay to pause, even for a few weeks or a few days, to pray about it, to ask the Holy Spirit for discernment on where to go next. Maybe if they are doing like in my curriculum with the workbook and writing their answers out, kind of reviewing those answers with them, reviewing what they have learned and affirming this is really good information, like you were made well, your body is a good thing and this is so important for you to learn about.
Kristen Miele:But I understand if it makes you uncomfortable, like we can pause for a little bit. I would just try to get at the particulars. What exactly was it? Because sometimes there could have been an event or they could be reminded of something, or maybe they saw a scary TV show or something that you know pictured what I was talking about in the video and they aren't sure how to articulate that to you. So I would really engage with the child. But pause, there's no need to watch um in discomfort. But if they do seem like they're almost like moving inward with their body, like they're kind of covering their eyes or which, there's nothing weird that they're going to see them but, like you know, they're crossing their arms.
Kristen Miele:They seem unengaged, they don't. Maybe they're providing some resistance, like I don't really want to watch those. First of all, I think that's normal developmentally for kids to do, but also, um, to question a little bit. Well, can you tell me why? Because I know when I was a kid, like I really needed to learn this, but nobody talked to me about it, and I just want to be a space for you to talk about this. We can take a break for a couple months or something like that. Yeah, but making sure that there wasn't like an event.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, or you know.
Jessica Jenkins:That's really wise, yeah yeah, wise, yeah yeah. Because I know different kids. Some kids are curious, some kids are not. When I first became a mom, I remember like follow your kids, curiosity, only answer as much as they're asking, and those sorts of things. But one of my kids never asks, doesn't want to know, doesn't? And so I kind of have to be like all right, love, I'm gonna have to give you some details here. You're not curious, you're not asking, but I have to. You're going to go to school and you're in fourth grade and somebody is going to say something and you need to hear it from me first. So how do you recommend navigating kids who aren't curious? I feel like the curious ones are a little bit easier, but how do you recommend navigating kids who aren't curious? Maybe not asking, or, as you mentioned, a neurodivergent child who's a little bit developmentally behind, but maybe they're in sports or public school settings where other kids who aren't developmentally behind are going to be talking about these sorts of things.
Kristen Miele:Yeah, absolutely. I think if they're not curious, that could very well mean they don't have questions about the topic and aren't concerned. So you might want to start at things that they need to be concerned about. For example, like a 14 year old neurodivergent boy is still going through puberty and his body is still starting to smell and he's still growing hair and maybe he needs to consider shaving or showering more. He might still be having, you know, like erections in the night that he doesn't know what those are, and so acknowledging that kind of element in the room was like hey, your body is going through this and so I know you might not have questions, you might not be curious, which, frankly, is probably not true.
Kristen Miele:He probably does have some questions in there at some point, right, but you might not be asking questions. But I really want you to learn about anatomically what your body is going through and why it's going through what it is, and so you could start with more factual stuff there. You don't have to get into all the big ideas of sexuality and kind of the hard hitting topics. You could just start with the basic facts of like I want you to make sure that you're being healthy and that you're being safe and so we're going to watch, as it relates to my curriculum.
Kristen Miele:Or you could say we're going to talk about these three topics we're going to, and then that's it and we'll stop there and you can let me know later and a question might come up six weeks later for him or her about the topic, and then you know you can do a little bit more, um, but if they're, if they genuinely don't seem curious or interested, then I would at least start with the facts and take kind of a health approach to like I just want you to be healthy and safe as you go through this, cause you and a lot of your friends are going to be going through puberty and that can be hard, but everybody goes through it, it's normal, it's necessary, um, and I want you to know why and how to, how to deal practically with some of that.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah, I love that. No, that's really helpful. One thing I have heard just in my perusings of this topic is that it's very helpful for the kids to have the parents not position themselves as experts necessarily, but to let the kids know that they know about the topic. I saw something online about a mom who her little boy saw porn and he didn't even think to tell her because it never come up in conversation and he didn't know. Mommy even knew what porn was, so why would he tell her? Because he didn't know she knew these things existed. How can parents? Obviously your sex ed curriculum is a great way, but what's other ways that they can kind of position themselves as experts? Like you can ask mommy and daddy anything. Ask us before Google. Like you can ask mommy and daddy anything ask us before Google. Like how can parents do that to help their children and open up those lanes of conversation?
Kristen Miele:Yes, I love this question because it's very practical and I'm all about practicality and how you actually play out this narrative in the real world. So one way I think that parents can make sure that they are the safe space and that their kids don't go to Google and ask their friends stuff because they don't think their parents know or can answer, is to utilize daily opportunities or weekly opportunities. So maybe, like, for example, the other day, I was at kind of a fair, like a town fair, if you want to call it that, and there were gay couples walking around and my daughter already knows what that is and knows that families are different and people have different values and all of this. But she asked me something about one of the couples and I answered and it sounds so simple, but so many of us grew up in an environment where we had a question and we were shut down or we were told it wasn't appropriate or not to worry about it or it didn't matter or like oh, that's, that's too big for you, that's too heavy for you.
Kristen Miele:And to this day I mean, I saw it's kind of a gripe for me, but I saw a big Christian radio station like one of the most popular Christian radio stations. They posted about sex, which I thought was kind of weird and random. But they posted that if your kid asks you what is sex, you can tell them it's too heavy for them to carry, it's like a heavy piece of baggage. And so many people were like, oh my gosh, yes.
Kristen Miele:But then actually there was a lot of commenters because I went down that rabbit hole of like, no, that's not an appropriate answer. Your kid is asking you what it is. You need to have some sort of answer for them. And anyway and it was funny because the radio station was using a real life example from Corrie ten Boom, which is a long time ago so I was just like, hey, maybe that was appropriate. Then it no longer is. We have devices and sex is everywhere. So, anyway, um, some advice does not age. Yeah, yeah, it seems nice, though Right, like, oh, this is too heavy for you, you can't carry it. It's like, yeah, that's nice for the parent, cause they don't have to engage in anything uncomfortable and they can just move on, but it does nothing for the kid.
Jessica Jenkins:Who's honestly curious?
Kristen Miele:Yeah, you want to show your kid you are the safe space by answering questions, by being present, by even utilizing these daily opportunities of like hey, mom, I noticed. I mean your kid is not going to say it this maturely but essentially.
Kristen Miele:I noticed on the news that they're talking about abortion, Like why do we believe what we believe again? And you bring that up or you say, hey, what do you know about this? Or what do your friends think about this topic? Or what are your friends saying about this topic? Or maybe you're watching a TV program together and a couple is not treating each other well and there's red flags about a guy or a girl who's dating. You can say, do you know what red flags are in a relationship? Like would you put up with the way that he's treating her? What would you do if a boyfriend did that? How would you respond? Really, asking them and even if they're like I don't know, you know, I'm not sure, like it's not going to happen to me, it gets them thinking and realizing that you are a safe space and that, what if this did happen? How would I respond? Because things happen to Christians too.
Jessica Jenkins:Yeah.
Kristen Miele:All the time. We enter into bad relationships. We get manipulated Um, we might sext and then experience ramifications from that. We get into porn, we deal with abuse, we're victims Like all of these things can happen to us. You know, christians get abortions. So we need to talk to our Christian children who are going to grow up to be Christian adults, ideally still love the Lord about these situations. Why do they happen? What are the outcomes? How can we respond in a loving matter manner to those who experienced them? And that's really just utilizing daily opportunities to ask them what they think and why they think about that. And that shows that you do care and they're more likely to come to you when they see porn at a sleepover or something, because you've already provided that space for them porn at a sleepover or something, because you've already provided that space for them.
Jessica Jenkins:Yes, I love that. That's so practical and hands-on. Our time is almost up. I've been loving this conversation. Is there any final thoughts or education you want to share with our audience about sex education and what you do?
Kristen Miele:Sure, I think my final thought for parents who are listening is that you can do this. It is doable. You don't need to make it into some big talk. This sit down thing where you pass your kid a book and you ask them if they have any questions and you move on Like this, is not your parents or the baby boomers generation any longer.
Kristen Miele:Many of us did go through purity culture. We did experience legalism or we experienced what the world thought of sex and sexuality and it wasn't super helpful and we learned from Google. And first I think you need to reckon with that. You need to think about your own sex ed whether you're a dad or a mom and consider how that impacted you. Pray about that Journal, about that. Maybe there's something you haven't dealt with from your past. Maybe you even need to seek out a little bit of counseling to really consider Go through that kind of thing first, if you can your own viewpoints on it all.
Kristen Miele:I mean I have couples reach out and I should say I have women reach out more commonly who say my husband does not want to talk about this, so I'm going to end up doing it all. So like, can you, you know, what would you recommend? And it's like man that kind of breaks my heart a little bit because there's probably a reason he won't and he needs to like for his own life and his own joy and his own relationship with the Lord and his wife, like he needs to dig into that, even though it can suck. So I would encourage parents to dig into their own worldviews and experience of sex at first, or in lack thereof, and then know that you're still qualified. You can still do this, it is doable.
Kristen Miele:The reason I provide conversations for kids to watch and listen to is because I want to give parents the language by actually just doing it like for them. But that's not where it ends. You are then meant to engage and have organic conversation from there, and you will I guarantee that you will when this is a topic that's explored in your house. So it's doable, but it's really good for us to be looking inward and thinking about how am I impacted by my youth and what my parents did or didn't teach me, or school did or didn't teach me church, et cetera and what do I want to pass on to my kids.
Jessica Jenkins:What don't I yeah?
Kristen Miele:Yeah.
Jessica Jenkins:That is such great advice and I love how you really brought out the introspection us as parents need to do. I know, especially for us adults, parents who have sexual abuse, sexual assault in our background, that can make it extra difficult to engage these topics with our kids, because PTSD, all of anxiety, body reactions to even talking about sexual things, to a sexual abuse survivor can be exceptionally triggering, and so I appreciate that you have curriculum like this that can also provide a buffer for those parents. They need to do their own internal work counseling, all of the things but their kids aren't necessarily going to stop growing up until the parents have done all the internal work, and so your curriculum provides that buffer where they can still have conversations, make sure their kids are getting the information they need in a safe way, but they don't have to drive every conversation fully. They can kind of bounce off of what you teach, and I love that you provide that resource for people who just don't know themselves, people who aren't sure how to handle tricky situations, victims of abuse, where it can be literally triggering, all of those things. I love what you're doing. I am so thankful for it. Thank you for joining me today and I cannot wait for our listeners to get your curriculum in their hands Again.
Jessica Jenkins:She has a 15% off coupon. The code is Christian Parenting. You can get that on her website, which I will link her website, her Instagram, the coupon code, all of the goodies will be in the description of this episode. Thank you so much, christian. It has been a pleasure to have you.
Kristen Miele:Oh, thank you. I so appreciate you reaching out and I'm glad we could connect. This was really fun and encouraging, Awesome.
Jessica Jenkins:Well, may the Lord bless you all and keep you. May his face shine upon you and give you peace. Have a great day Until next time. We will see you then.
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