039 God As Mother wtih Elizabeth Berget

If “God the Father” has been the only picture of God you’ve ever been given, you might not realize how much of Scripture you’re missing, and how much comfort might be locked behind that one doorway. I’m joined by Elizabeth Berget, speaker and author of "Love Like a Mother: How the Sacred Work of Motherhood Reveals the Maternal Heart of God," to explore a biblically rooted and historically grounded idea that can feel both startling and healing: God loves us like a mother.

We talk honestly about why “God as Mother” can trigger panic or pushback, especially for people trying to hold tightly to orthodoxy and avoid creating God in our own image. Elizabeth shares why the belief that God has no gender is not a modern invention, and why maternal language is not a replacement for Father language, but an expansion that helps us take the whole Bible seriously. Along the way, we dig into why churches have often ignored these passages, how male-centered perspectives shape preaching and discipleship, and how women are often forced to translate faith through metaphors that never reflect them back.

We also get practical and pastoral: how the maternal heart of God speaks to postpartum anxiety, exhaustion, and the pressure to “do it right,” plus how this message lands for people facing infertility, childlessness, loss, estranged relationships, or complicated family stories. If you’ve ever thought, “I just need my mom,” this conversation offers a fresh way to experience God’s gentleness and care.

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• Substack: https://elizabethberget.substack.com/
• Website: https://elizabethberget.com/

Transcript

Welcome And Introducing Elizabeth

Jessica LM Jenkins 0:00

Today I have with me Elizabeth Burguette. She is the author of Love Like a Mother, How the Sacred Work of Motherhood Reveals the Maternal Heart of God. And I am just so excited to have her on the podcast. Welcome, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Berget 0:14

Thanks so much. I'm really excited to talk with you this morning.

Jessica LM Jenkins 0:18

Elizabeth is a speaker and author. She lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota with her husband and three kids. And she also shares her thoughts. You can find her online um on Substack. She shares her thoughts on her newsletter, Back of the Flock on Substack. You can also find her on Instagram and threads, and I will have all of those links in the bio of this episode so that you can make sure to follow her because you definitely want to. And I cannot wait to talk about this fabulous book she has written. So, Elizabeth, what was it that got you started exploring the maternal aspects of God and scripture, which is what you wrote an entire book about?

Elizabeth Berget 1:03

Yeah. It really kind of came out of nowhere for me. I had my three kids in four years and was home with them, which was, you know, a delight and a choice and a privilege. And also very chaotic. You know, it our days

The Question That Started It

Elizabeth Berget 1:16

started well before dawn, and then I was up all night, and um, we were just kind of in this chaos tornado of babies and toddlers for several years. And um, you know, having been, you know, sort of a very formerly very productive person, I just remember one night sitting, sitting with my, I was in the the dark of my youngest nursery um trying to get him to sleep. My husband was like fighting for his life with the other two across the hall. They were three and four, I think, and um just sort of ticking through our day. Like we'd been up for so many hours. And it was like, okay, what did we even do today? You know, because doing is such a metric through which I, you know, view my life. And so it was like, okay, we, you know, I changed 11 diapers and we went somewhere. So I did three car seats buckled, three car seats unbuckled, and I wiped applesauce off the floor and I took the electrical cord out of the baby's mouth, you know, all these things that just like make up our day, the minutiae of of mothering young kids. Yeah. And just sort of thought about like those sort of minutia tasks in light of how much I deeply love my kids and and how much my own body had gone through. And out of nowhere, this question just really bubbled up for me like, wait a minute, does God love me like this? Does God love me like a mother? Does God pay relentless attention to me? Is God always looking out for me? Is God sacrificing God's own body for me? Is God intimate and familiar with me enough to know what, you know, my my needs are and then meeting my needs? And it just really that question kind of took hold of me. Um, you know, despite having kind of been that kid that was in church from the day she was born and like Sunday school youth group one as Bible college, like despite a life of faith and a life of studying the Bible and and taking that very seriously, the idea of God as Mother was very new to me and in fact alarming. It was kind of like, wait a minute, can I even ask this? Is this heretical? Um I just really sat with that question for a number of years and researched and read and um you know, read my Bible, read spiritual resources, read widely across a spectrum of authors, and then um kind of came to the conclusion that the answer to that question is a resounding yes. And then when I started to look at like the spiritual resources offered to women and mothers, I was like, nobody's talking about this. I mean, I went almost 35 years of very consistent church attendance. I've like never heard about this. So um I think particularly in some denominations or in some churches, this is something that is not talked about enough. And so that really compelled me to write this book to say, we we need to bring this into the conversation and more of us need to know about this.

Jessica LM Jenkins 3:46

Absolutely. No, I've really appreciated this as well. It's got the motherhood aspect of God has been like around the edges of my consciousness and my study, but to have a whole book kind of devoted to that topic has been an absolute blessing to my soul. And it's one I think that needs to be gotten out there because so much our churches focus on God the Father, the masculine aspect of God. Um, and so to to kind of push back on that is so crucial and important.

Elizabeth Berget 4:16

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think like I like to tell people it's it's a balance, right? Like we're not trying to replace God the Father. That's in scripture. We're not gonna ignore that. We're not gonna throw that baby out with the bathwater, right? No, but I we do, I think we sell God short when we don't look at at the way that ways that God shows up like a mother in scripture. Like we're not, we're not taking scripture seriously if we're kind of actively ignoring these parts where God has God's maternal qualities are really highlighted and featured. And so um, you know, I like to tell people it's not a replacement, it's an expansion of of who we know God to be God to be. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica LM Jenkins 4:52

And um I had this question later, but I think it's really gonna fit right well right here in our interview. Um, as I've been talking about your book on Instagram, I've gotten almost panic DMs from people like, wait a minute, God's not male, God's not a man, God doesn't have gender, and people are trying to process God as genderless, sexless. And

Is “God As Mother” Off Limits

Jessica LM Jenkins 5:16

then even the fact that we could view God, uh a maternal aspect of God. So, what would you say to someone who's resistant to the idea of knowing God as mother?

Elizabeth Berget 5:27

Absolutely. Well, thanks for like putting yourself in the line of fire for me and for this book. Um, I certainly can relate and have been on the receiving end of a lot of that the last few years. Um yeah, I have a lot of compassion and empathy for people who feel this way because I really felt that way when this is something I first started exploring. Um I I didn't want to be someone who was making God in my own image just because that was easier or adding to or taking away from scripture or like we're warned against in revelation in Deuteronomy. Like these are things that I also take seriously. Um, and so a couple of things I would have I would put forward to someone who's feeling some discomfort around these ideas is A, take your time. You know, there's no rush to like decide on what you feel, but also like here's some things that might help you feel a little more comfortable. One is that the idea that God has no gender, while it's very charged in today's day and age that just any ideas around gender, um, the idea that God has no gender, that God is a spirit, that God is not male or female, that God does not have biological features or reproductive organs or body parts that are male or female is a very old idea. This is something that 2,000 years of Christian tradition has affirmed, and that even today, people across the theological spectrum affirm. You know, both John Piper and Richard Rohr have said statements that God has no gender. And these are two very people in very different places theologically. And so um, that's the first thing I would say. And then the second thing I would say is that um both in my study and my research, and then in the book, I really tried to root these ideas in scripture because that's important to know that we're not just making this up, we're not just kind of, you know, conjuring this out of thin air. These are ideas that are really deeply embedded in scripture. And while I admittedly they're fewer in percentage than language like God as Father or God as king, they're there. And I talk about this more in the book. They show up in places that are really important in the Bible, um, specifically in in changes to Israel's theology as they grow as with the people of God, some of this maternal language shows up in very important places in kind of their theological history and understanding of who God is. And so um I think it's important to open ourselves up to wondering does God show up like a mother in scripture? Because it is in scripture. And so, and to be serious, you know, if we want to be good Bereans and know our Bibles well, right? Like we need to take those parts of the Bible seriously as well. Um and again, I kind of mentioned earlier, it's not about replacing God the Father or saying, we'll know God's mother, not father. It's just expansive. We want to know God well. And if we want to know God well, if we want to know God as fully as we possibly can here on earth with our limited human language and our limited human understanding, it's important that we take all that we have of God in Scripture um seriously. And so those are kind of some things I would say to people. It's it's uh Becca Stewart, who wrote Permission to Matter, talks about like you don't have to step outside of traditional Christianity to embrace these ideas. Like they are well within Orthodox, and by orthodox I mean traditional beliefs, and they're well within the bounds of scripture. So those are some things I would say.

Jessica LM Jenkins 8:33

So, what are some reasons that you think the church hasn't historically highlighted these aspects of God's character?

Elizabeth Berget 8:41

Oof, this is like a whole chapter that I ended up kind of kiboshing in the book. But um, yeah, I I mean there's countless reasons. I think primarily because men have been the typical historical representatives of the church in God, right? And so men are not

Why Churches Skip Maternal Images

Elizabeth Berget 8:57

necessarily going to like dig in to God is like a laboring mother in Isaiah. I want to say 42, numbers are never my strong sort. Definitely Isaiah. But like uh I just think, you know, a male pastor is going to reach for anecdotes, metaphors, experiences that are male. And that's what we all do when we're trying to get a point across. There's no like harm in that. But, you know, as we've excluded women from the pulpit over time and space, um we're we're I think that's part of why we're we're missing out on some of these things, you know, and just generally like women's voices, women's experiences, women's bodies um have just not historically been valued like men's. And so I think these more maternal, more feminine images in scripture just don't get the airtime they deserve because of that. Um, I think they they I think people do get get sticky around like, oh, can we talk about this? Is this heretical? I think that's part of it because it's been so overlooked. Um, so I think those are some of the reasons. And I think too, just women's bodies are um, you know, there there's these like puritanical remnants of, okay, well, Eve Eve bit the apple, pain and childbearing. I mean, I I know that sounds like archaic, but I think those ideas are so pervasive. They're just kind of they're kind of in the mycelial network of our thinking, you know, they're kind of underground, but they inform a lot. And so, you know, Dorothy Greco wrote this great book called For the Love of Women, exploring how misogyny still shows up today. And I think some of those um aspects also inform, you know, these theological oversights that we we were witnessing or that I'm trying to shed a light on.

Jessica LM Jenkins 10:42

Yeah, I really appreciate everything you're saying there about how the church I think part of it is they just they haven't thought about it. Um I've heard somewhere like women are socialized to consider the male perspective, but men are not socialized to consider the female perspective. And so I'm not blaming them. Men just don't think about the other side. Women are used to engaging both female and male resources, and especially in the complementary and evangelical space I was raised in, men only engaged male resources at all. That's it. They never listen to female voices, and so this whole aspect is completely foreign to that frame of mind to even consider a feminine perspective.

Elizabeth Berget 11:31

Yeah, absolutely. Um in one um sort of earlier iteration of um the the manuscript that I wrote, I I gave it to a lifelong evangelical pastor um to say, what about the who's yeah, very, very complimentary and open-minded person, but just you know, in complimentary and evangelical spaces, and just said, like, what's gonna make you put this book down? Like help me, help me think through what are the red flags for you, or you know, because I I hoped to write it in a way that was invitational and uh sort of inclusive of people sort of across the spectrum. And um he he mentioned a, you know, he didn't really, there was nothing that just sort of struck him as just crazy. You know, he's like, no, this is super rooted in scripture. But what was one of his more interesting piece of feedback for me was, yeah, we don't talk about this in churches like mine, and probably because we're we're giving men the microphone. Um, and and he was even saying, like, people in seminaries should read this, even if they're heading into like more complimentary and our male-dominated spaces, because we are, yeah, we're making it hard on women. I again I'll talk talk about Becca Stewart, but she has a term called intellectual flexibility that she says women are in church are practicing this all the time to find their place in male perspectives and male metaphors and male stories, male figures of the Bible that get most of the airtime, right? Whereas we're not really asking men to do the same. And so it was it was just really interesting to hear his perspective on saying, like, yeah, this is really important and we aren't talking about this enough. And and we need to remedy that even in these spaces where you know, he's not like, okay, I'm gonna start going to an egalitarian church tomorrow. But even within these more complementarian spaces, like I there's room and a need to help the women in our churches see themselves in God, see themselves in scripture. Yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 13:12

So, I mean, we've already talked about this some, but how does knowing God as mother benefit women, men, children, the church specifically?

Elizabeth Berget 13:19

Yeah, um, I think, you know, all of us, I think a broad umbrella answer to that, and then I can dive into some specifics, but you know, we're all born needing God, right? And science, particularly attachment theory, posits we're all born needing a mother. And so um there's there's studies that show

How Knowing God As Mother Helps

Elizabeth Berget 13:36

that when our needs are met as babies, particularly by a mother figure, although a dominant caregiver is also true, but um when our needs are met as babies, particularly by a mother figure, you know, that sets us up for strong social bonds for the future, ability to trust in relationships later. And I just think we're just hardwired for connection and care from day one. Men, women, alike. We're all born this way that we just want to be cared for. And I so many of us experience that really tangibly in the arms of our mothers for the first time and in their bodies, as we're just stated, right? Like, um and so, and and mothers are there's I mean, fathers are certainly more involved today than they were in the past with newborn care, but it's still like the work of mothers. There's something about those first three months that it's like babies want moms. You want you guys I love going down rabbit holes on Instagram of watching babies like fuss, and then they get their mom's arms, they're like, oh my gosh, this is the person I wanted the whole time. But um, all that to say, like there's something about us I think that is hardwired for connection and care and hardwired to be mothered. And I think that need, like all others, is best met in God alone. And so men need to be mothered, women need to be mothered, kids need to be mothered. And so that that perspective, I think, is kind of the umbrella answer. Um, you know, I think in terms of specific benefit benefits, things we've talked about, you know, we when we know God as mother, I think we value women more, I think we value women's perspectives more and women's experiences more. I think um women have a lens that we can bring to scripture that is really unique, that we have just sort of let collect dust on the shelf for centuries here. Um, you know, men I think need to again, these are sort of like uh non-nuanced statements, but uh, men are often taught to relate to God through like power dynamics or hierarchy or authority, strengths, and to know that they can also be mothered by God is so, so critical, I think. Um, and then I think of kids. I just was working on a piece with uh Meredith Miller about this, and um, you know, for kids, a couple things come to mind. One is not all kids have a dad, not all kids have a dad that's safe. And so when we only present God as father, I think we're putting up an unnecessary barrier or hindrance to kids who really have a hard time relating with that metaphor. Um and also And even adults. Yeah, and adults, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So a lot of these things kind of apply to different categories, but um you know, I just think in general, when we expand our understanding of God to know God as mother, it not only helps us know God better across the spectrum, but it helps each person, particularly women and girls, know themselves as full, complete, equal image bearers of God. And that's something I think um Katie Murchison Ross just put a thing on Instagram today that was like looking through kids' Bibles and like there's no women. There's no women in any of these like older kids' Bibles, like Mary Magdalene's not at the tomb, Miriam's not uh shipping Moses off down the Nile. And I just was like, Yeah, like our girls, you know, we pick up on that as kids and as women too, to say, like, well, where where do I fit in this story? Where do I fit in God's image?

Jessica LM Jenkins 16:43

Yeah. I had two kids before I realized that Jesus had nine or more female disciples. Yeah, yeah. Like Bible col my dad's a pastor, raised in the church, Bible college, seminary, two graduates degrees. I was an adult with two kids degreed the whole thing before it was like Jesus had nine female disciples. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's like the church is not telling us these things to help us see the value of women. Yeah. Outside of mothering. Right, right. Your value comes from being a mother. Yeah. But we're not gonna talk about how God mothers us. You just have to do it without that reflection of God.

Elizabeth Berget 17:29

Yeah. It's it's a weird dichotomy or disconnect almost, because because in so many corners of the church, it's like motherhood is the end goal of femininity, which I don't agree to. I'm just saying that's often the message you're given is like, well, ultimately, if you want to be a good woman in the church, you're gonna be a mother. And so we're we value motherhood in in one sense and completely devalue it by leaving the image of God out of it. Um, and I think that's a dichotomy I I'm eager to explore more because it's just yeah. And I it leads, I think, to a profound lack of support, especially for young mothers. But that's like maybe a whole nother TED talk I can give another time.

Jessica LM Jenkins 18:05

But um, that's a really good one. Um, one thing I noticed in reading your book is you understandably so use a lot of stories of childbirth and maternal things you've gone through, which is great. As a mom, I could totally relate to being in the hospital in labor with my kids. But I know there are women who struggle with infertility. They've never been able to have kids. And

Infertility And Childless Readers Matter

Jessica LM Jenkins 18:30

for some of them, a book like this, they're going to potentially be concerned that this is just a book about their personal motherhood, which they haven't been able to get. So, how is your book still important for women who are childless or struggling with infertility or past the age of having children at home or have estranged adult children? How does this book really um how is this book really impactful for even them?

Elizabeth Berget 18:55

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so in with infertility specifically, I've walked along multiple friends who've um had that's been their journey. And also I've experienced loss and walked alongside friends who have experienced tremendous loss uh when it comes to children and have, you know, it was super important to me in the book to try to account for those experiences. Um, so I tell some of my own stories. I tell I they graciously shared some of their stories to be in the book because I I think like for women who are childless, specifically not by choice, who who are have wanted children or have struggled to have children, um that posture of a mother, that heart of a mother is alive and well in them, even if you know, children have not been if they don't have children. And so I I wanted to really say, like, hey, I see that in you. I see this longing to become a mother, I see this posture of a mother in you. And I think that that reflects something true about the heart of God, who, you know, I spend time in Luke 15 talking about the prodigal son and the lost lamb and the lost coin and this this frenetic searching and longing that that is depicted about God in that. And so um, you know, I I definitely wanted to include those experiences in the book. And then, you know, for for mothers who are, like you said, who are maybe past the age of childbearing or who have estranged children, like again, I think that that mother heart, that mother posture never really leaves us. I've had some older kind of grandma age moms go, oh, this brought me right back, you know. So I think some of those early experiences of motherhood um really just kind of imprint on our DNA. And so I think the book can really speak to old memories, but really sort of core memories and experiences because becoming a mother is so significant. I that that process of matrescence and everything about our body changes, our organs rearrange, our hormones change. Um, there's a study that talks about, I talk about in the book that says our brains change more in pregnancy and postpartum than they do at any other prime time in our lives, including puberty. And so that I think that that fundamental change we experience when we become mothers, even years, decades later, is is still a really profound and tangible, accessible place to for us to go. So um, all that to say, to kind of conclude, I think um for people who are childless, whether by choice or not, for people who are not in this sort of active diaper stage of mothering, um, my and I my hope in writing this book was that ultimately it would help all of us see God more fully and see God more expansively through the lenses and experiences of motherhood. And so um all of us have been mothered, whether that's been done well or that's been a wounding experience. Um, and so I also think having been mothered, all of us can can resonate with some of these ideas in the book, um, despite our our current status of with child or not.

Jessica LM Jenkins 21:43

And that's one thing I really appreciated about the book is that you're talking about the motherhood heart of God, and you use real life examples, but this is not, and I want to be very clear for the listeners, this is not a book on us mothering. There may be some applications. To that. Yeah. But this is a book about God and how God loves us and how our understandings of motherhood can help us understand God better, whether we're thinking about our own mother or our own children. But it's really a book about God, not being a mother that reflects God. And so that is a key distinction that for some who might not be quite sure if they want to read, I think, I think that's important if you're listening and wondering, should I get the book? Should I not? I don't really want to read another book about being a mom or a mother. Um, this book is about God and how God loves us in maternal ways, the way our mothers did or should have.

Elizabeth Berget 22:43

Yeah. I really should have hired you to write that copy for me like a year ago because that's super helpful, that distinction of like, yeah, I think I've had a handful of people say they really hesitate to read kind of Christian mom books because it generally just makes them feel like garbage for not keeping up, not doing enough. And this book is the polar opposite of that. I just I try to reiterate over and over again, like, you're doing great. God is gentle with you. You're nothing, there's no, there's no, you're not behind. Like you're you're doing okay. Um, and and I I think that distinction though of yeah, this isn't a book about how to be a better mom. I there's not one sentence of that. Um it is a book about how deeply loved you are by God who who mothers you. And so yeah, thank you for saying that. I should probably copy that down because that's a really helpful piece of piece of copy for me or description of the book.

Jessica LM Jenkins 23:31

I think I put that I think I put that in the Amazon review I did. So if you could find it. Oh I'll put that put that out in the ones. I don't for me, I'm not the type of woman where like I didn't grow up wanting to be a mom or babysitting, and motherhood has never felt super congruent to who I am as a person. And I'm one of those like I don't read motherhood books. And so, but this one I was I could tell it was different. I could tell this is about God, and I still feel the need to be mothered.

Elizabeth Berget 24:01

Yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 24:02

I'm almost 41, and it's still there are moments where like I just need moms.

Elizabeth Berget 24:07

Yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 24:08

And so to have that, this book has just been so helpful for anyone who's like, I just need my mom.

Elizabeth Berget 24:14

Yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 24:14

Maybe she's she's gone, maybe it's a uh bad relationship, maybe she's next door. But to to understand God in that close maternal way, like those of us who are mothers, we can we we know what it's like to scoop up our our crying child and feel comforting them. We may have good memories of being scooped up to be comforted by our mother and just to be reminded completely that that is how God loves us. And he is always there to scoop us up when we need it. And so that is one thing I think for anybody, whether they are male, female, old, young, mother, father, single, um, this book is really important to them.

Elizabeth Berget 24:54

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I again it just speaks to like we all have this need to be mothered, and that need I think God, God meets best, just like God meets all of our needs most fully and most satisfyingly.

Jessica LM Jenkins 25:06

So now that you've written the book, you are a mom, what truths from this book you wish you could go back to young Elizabeth, first baby in your arms, still in the hospital, in the middle of metrescence, trying to figure this all out. What is one or two things from your book that you do wish you could tell younger single self and early motherhood self?

Elizabeth Berget 25:29

Yeah, absolutely.

What I’d Tell New Mom Me

Elizabeth Berget 25:30

I this is the book I needed when I was in those stages for sure. Um, I think that the primary takeaways, and again, I I can speak from my my experience, my life, my perspective, right? So this isn't a prescriptive thing, but whether it was sort of um a product with just my internal wiring of, you know, kind of Enneogram run, Enneogram one, get to A plus, productivity, andor my my culture, my church subculture, the my family of origin, the family I married into, like whatever it is, whatever sort of uh ingredient soup of how I turned out, I felt so much pressure to to do everything so well as a young mother because I didn't want to screw it up. I love my kids so much and I didn't want to I didn't I wanted them to know God well. I wanted them to be good people, I wanted them to have happy lives, right? Just like we all do. And I felt this tremendous amount of pressure to keep up to some and and to to kind of get to some finish line that didn't exist. You know, it was just like this grind of, okay, I gotta, I gotta make sure their food's taken care of and I gotta make sure they're in the right preschool and blah, you know, and it was just this frantic feeling I had that I now identify, I think, as post-formal anxiety. But at the time, it was just this like rattled feeling I have of I'm not doing this well enough. And these kids deserve better than me. You know, like just a lot of guilt and shame. And again, I I turned to spiritual resources at the time thinking, like, okay, I gotta like get it together here for the sake of these kids. And I can't even open my Bible. My Bible's growing, you know, mold on it because I'm so tired. We're getting up a thousand times a night. I haven't done a quiet time in months. And I just felt so much shame and guilt from both internal and external sources. And what I would say to that girl, I would probably swaddle her in a giant adult blanket and put her in a dark room, but I would tell my younger self, like, God is gentle with you. That comes straight from Isaiah 40, 11. It's it's a huge foundational underpinning of the whole book, is to say, God is gentle to those with young. This first pops out at us from this passage about God the gentle shepherd. And he's talking about gathering the lambs in his arms, but he says specifically that God is gentle to those with young. And so when I think, I mean, I name myself stack back of the flock because when I think of when my kids were little and how slow we were to do anything or go anywhere, because you know, one kid's picking up every rock and the other untied their shoe, and then this person dropped their paw patrol figurine, and uh, it's like a crisis to just get out to the car, right? We're so slow in that season. Everything takes so much time and effort and intention and patience. And God is not standing miles ahead of us with the rest of the flat coin. What is wrong with her? Why can't she keep up? What is going on? Looking at a stopwatch or a checklist, right? So that's something I would tell her is that my younger self is like, God is so gentle. God is looking at you with kind eyes. And not only that, but God understands every single experience you're having. So we learn in Hebrews that God is a great high priest who can relate with everything we've experienced. And for a long time, I didn't think that applied to things of womanhood or motherhood. You know, it was like, well, God is God is not a woman. So how can God relate to what it feels like to have sciatic pain because there's a giant baby resting in your abdomen, you know, whatever it was. But like I just think like I would tell that younger version of myself, like every single thought, experience, emotion you're having, every single embodied experience you're having, like God can relate with this because God, God is mothering you, God, God has the posture of a mother towards you. So those are some things I would sort of like both shake her shoulders and then also just like you know, put some like lavender candle on and and let her kind of rest in bed while she marinated in those in those thoughts, and then keep the kids out of the room and keep it really quiet for her so she could take a nap. I feel like that's what we all need is just a big swaddle. I feel even as an adult, like you just need that that swaddle, the dark room, the dark machine, yes, yeah, some lavender, yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 29:18

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming and talking about your book. For those who are listening, again, the name of the book, and I'll put links and all of this in the description on a podcast. But Love Like a Mother, how the sacred work of motherhood reveals the maternal heart of God. And this is a must-read. Um, there are a lot of books I recommend and like, and this one's like,

Book Recommendations And Farewell

Jessica LM Jenkins 29:44

you have to get this and read this. And so I highly recommend it. Definitely give Elizabeth a follow. Um, thank you so much, Elizabeth, for being with us today.

Elizabeth Berget 29:55

Thank you. This was such a joy. Thank you for all of those kind words. I they really mean so much.

Jessica LM Jenkins 30:01

You are so welcome. Um, just one brief, another note for my listeners. I will be, this will probably be my last podcast episode for the summer. I'm thinking I need to take the summer off of the podcast to focus on my kids, which this is the the day of recording, is their last day of school. So focus on my kids and focus on my book over the summer. So I will hopefully um be back podcasting in the fall.

Summer Break Plans And Blessing

Jessica LM Jenkins 30:28

And I already have exciting episodes and series in mind for that. But over the summer, I think we'll all just take a breather. Again, Elizabeth, thank you. It has been a delight to talk to you and get to know you better. And for everyone listening, may the Lord bless you and keep you. May He make his face to shine upon you and give you peace. Have a great week.